tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post727465172997206668..comments2024-03-05T10:34:30.182-05:00Comments on The Marlowe-Shakespeare Connection: Marlovians Bite Back by Peter FareyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-92202112661880854362012-06-07T23:32:32.486-04:002012-06-07T23:32:32.486-04:00The Mayor of Canterbury should raise a court actio...The Mayor of Canterbury should raise a court action to sue Stratford for fraud and loss of tourist revenues. How would this case be viewed?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-37794191421870787352011-11-26T18:46:36.274-05:002011-11-26T18:46:36.274-05:00"How good does the surviving evidence have to..."How good does the surviving evidence have to be before it can be refuted?" I don't understand this. Surely they mean, "How good does the surviving evidence have to be before it cannot be refuted?"<br />And if you go back to the OED you will find that they mean rebutted. To refute a statement or belief is to prove it to be untrue. And maybe - one day - these unsubstantiated assertions by the Stratfordians will be thoroughly refuted.Michael McEvoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10830512357899133086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-47182346713022436782011-11-19T20:07:23.968-05:002011-11-19T20:07:23.968-05:00It is so unfortunate that no truly wealthy person ...It is so unfortunate that no truly wealthy person has ever become interested in the Marlovian theory. Can you imagine what would happen if Bill Gates decided to sponsor one hundred scholars to work full time researching Marlowe's post-1593 career? I have no doubts that it would not take long for some interesting facts to surface.daver852https://www.blogger.com/profile/06067533090226229731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-35349546590701641412011-11-16T04:27:25.991-05:002011-11-16T04:27:25.991-05:00Given their demand for the removal of the memorial...Given their demand for the removal of the memorial window's question mark, you might like to know that I have now updated my essay <i>Marlowe's Sudden and Fearful End</i>, which gives my reasons for querying the date of his death, and placed it right at the head of my home page at http://www2.prestel.co.uk/rey/ <br /><br />PeterPeter Fareynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-76267529035023429102011-11-15T19:27:02.954-05:002011-11-15T19:27:02.954-05:00My ex (in fact, my very first, from the 70s!) teac...My ex (in fact, my very first, from the 70s!) teaches English (as an expert on Elizabethans, mind you) at Georgetown; I once made the mistake of mentioning the Marlowe hypothesis to her in an email... and the tut-tut-tutting I received as a result taught me that proselytizing (or even instigating open-minded discussion) on the topic is futile. This "debate" divides along a hard-wired, genetic difference, I now think.<br /><br />There's something profoundly moving in this "secret", in its half-buried form... the contrast between the "official", accepted, implausibly naive story and the one we all, here, lend more credence to... is the difference between morbid cant and the immortal play of genius. A protean, winking, deathless Marlowe is so much better than a cardboard bard. The Strats are to be pitied.A. Ominoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-24884265760560492012011-11-15T11:08:52.814-05:002011-11-15T11:08:52.814-05:00Is it any wonder that Stratfordians devote almost ...Is it any wonder that Stratfordians devote almost all their time to debunking the claims of Oxfordians? It isn't just that Oxford's the most popular alternative candidate; they concentrate on Oxford because the arguments in his favor are easy to refute. Then, after demolishing the Oxfordian position, they dismiss Marlowe with a shrug. On those rare occasions when they can be drawn into a discussion about Marlowe, you can see the Stratfordians actually squirm with discomfort. Ask a Stratfordian to explain the scene between Touchstone and William of Arden in "As You Like It." You'll get blank stares, insults, stammering, evasion - everything except a reasonable explanation. I believe that a lot of Stratfordians secretly believe we're on to something, but are afraid to admit it. They know that if the discussion turns from Oxford to Marlowe, they are the ones who are at a disadvantage.daver852https://www.blogger.com/profile/06067533090226229731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-65080467272037152882011-11-14T03:51:43.858-05:002011-11-14T03:51:43.858-05:00Thinking about it, I can understand Peter's an...Thinking about it, I can understand Peter's annoyance with the Shakespeare scholars. It would be preferable to have a real debate, looking past whether Marlowe died at Deptford, about whether he could have penned the poems and plays. We Marlovians feel well-prepared for such discussion, if only we would be engaged.<br /><br />It is fairly easy to dispel Oxford: his surviving poems (even if "juvenile") do not show any hint of the great author. And if aristocracy was such an impediment to publishing, why did Meres mention him in the same breath as Shakespeare, and why do we have the attributed works of Philip Sidney?<br /><br />Also fairly easy to dispel is Shakspere: no literary paper trail, no reports of him as an author by colleagues whilst alive. This may be "absence of evidence" as Stratfordians are so fond of stating, but an immense amount of historical detective-work has attempted to uncover something about the Stratford man - resulting in over seventy documents showing him to be a petty businessman and awkward social climber, but nothing more. Also damning (despite Stratfordian protestations) are the workaday will, Jane Cox of the Public Records Office's assessment of the signatures (see <a href="http://www.shakespeare-oxford.com/?p=81" rel="nofollow">this link</a>, scroll down to point 4), and the fact that his parents and children were illiterate. Can we really believe in Shakespere given all these serious problems with the case?<br /><br />With Marlowe we have a proven ability to write in the exact style, the necessity to remain hidden, a huge number of parallel lines, quite a few obvious hints, known ability to read sources in the original (and only available) languages, clear biographical interpretation of otherwise opaque sonnets, the solution of the riddle on the monument, documented recognition of talent from an early age, familiarity with aristocracy depicted in the plays and dedicated to in the poems, familiarity with the lower classes also depicted, passion for Ovid, use of Holinshead, and an unbroken, incremental development of literary style from around 1587 to 1611. Combine all that with the work Peter has done to demonstrate that his faked death really is the best explanation of the meeting in Deptford, and we are left with Marlowe as the runaway favourite candidate.<br /><br />Now stop squabbling, Stratfordians and other Shakespeare-lovers, and put your great skills to finding out what really did happen to Marlowe; was his end (to paraphrase The Tempest) dukedom or despair?Dan Sayersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-64496231433089558962011-11-12T16:12:59.992-05:002011-11-12T16:12:59.992-05:00Peter
Having just seen Anonymous I came away wonde...Peter<br />Having just seen Anonymous I came away wondering whether it advanced or hindered the cause of Oxford, or indeed any of the alternate candidates in the authorship question, and your response Marlovians Bite Back is excellent.My view is given in Shakespeared! ( Amazon $5) which I herewith cast into the debate. Let the rending begin! It attempts to give a plausible reason why Marlowe's substitute needed to be defaced, and why the portrait then was hidden at Corpus until 1953.I apologize in advance for remaining errors, and thank you for helpful comments.<br />Dr Roger TallentireRoger Tallentirenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-44613440587843468482011-11-12T15:45:21.363-05:002011-11-12T15:45:21.363-05:00Glad to hear you're keeping an open mind Sabin...Glad to hear you're keeping an open mind Sabine ;-)Dan Sayersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-73798266743171486552011-11-12T15:23:53.619-05:002011-11-12T15:23:53.619-05:00Dan,
I know, what you mean. Most (sane)Shaksper do...Dan,<br />I know, what you mean. Most (sane)Shaksper doubters don't have this maddening arrogance, or should I say, ignorance of orthodox Stratfordians.<br />At least for me, it's all about finding the truth. So, should the Oxfordians ever find proof, that their Earl wasn't a complete jerk,that he faked his own death in 1604 and only pretended to be a mediocre poet, so nobody would ever suspect this modest guy of having been the genius, that is Shakespeare, I'd say: Congratulations, well done!<br />And should the Stratfordians ever find out, that their William was such a shy and insecure personality, that he never dared to show his secret poetry to anyone, as long as The Giant Marlowe was alive, that he raided Kit's stash and stole all of Marlowe's numerous unpublished plays and poems and ideas, as soon as he heard the sad news from Deptford, I'd say: well done, Stratfordians! We finally see the light and realize, poor Will felt so guilty for the rest of his life, that he sprinkled all those Marlowe-hints into his works and even left instructions, that Marlowe's name should be included in his Stratford monument inscription in form of a riddle!Sabinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-9325168266894556792011-11-12T14:20:44.162-05:002011-11-12T14:20:44.162-05:00Don't worry Sabine, I'm not jumping ship. ...Don't worry Sabine, I'm not jumping ship. It's just that I've felt more kinship with the Oxfordian (and other) Shakspere-doubters than the Stratfordians in the recent post-<em>Anonymous</em> debates - which was not previously the case. As long as the argument concentrates on legitimate doubts about the traditional authorship attribution, I find myself mostly in agreement with them.<br /><br />Having said that I'm not clear on why Oxfordians (and um, Sidneyans) are opposed to the idea of any of the plays being collaborations.Dan Sayersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-18950138607458807252011-11-12T13:28:45.612-05:002011-11-12T13:28:45.612-05:00Peter,
This question mark in the window must irk S...Peter,<br />This question mark in the window must irk Stratfordians to no end, because, as long, as it can be safely presumed, that Marlowe died in May 1593, there's no danger from that corner. But should someone ever prove, that he survived Deptford long enough to write "Shake-Speare", their house of cards might crash. Even if Marlowe as a proven survivor is not automatically the proven writer of the contested body of work, Occam's Razor, about which we talked a lot lately, would strongly suggest, that he was, and academian strongholds might eventually fall like domino pieces.<br />It's regrettable, that Prof. Wells resorts to bad science in order to make his point.<br /><br />Dan,<br />What do you mean exactly by stating, that your regard for the Oxfordians increased? That their theory has some merits, or that talking to them is more rewarding than talking to Stratfordians?Sabinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-56665322195942286672011-11-12T12:36:09.059-05:002011-11-12T12:36:09.059-05:00That Stratfordians dismiss anti-Stratfordian point...That Stratfordians dismiss anti-Stratfordian points of view is entirely to be expected. After all, their whole careers would start to look a bit silly were it to come to light they'd been talking about the wrong fellow all these years. Especially easy as a target for them is Marlowe, since he is documented to have died - even if a little investigation will show that the likelihood of the death being faked is actually rather high. Most people are likely to go with the status quo opinion that he did die - “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”.<br /><br />Still it's annoying that those apparently holding the highest standards of scholarship and rationality are blind to the enormous clues right under their noses.<br /><br />For myself, I know what I believe, and am more interested in what future discoveries may elucidate about the Marlowe story than convincing those who have a vested interest in the other guy.<br /><br />Having said that, I have increased my opinion of Oxfordians lately, which was unexpected.Dan Sayersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-82722995310627709022011-11-12T11:30:56.035-05:002011-11-12T11:30:56.035-05:00Yes, I have read it. I have also read a highly con...Yes, I have read it. I have also read a highly confidential screenplay based upon it, although I cannot for the life of me see just what this has to do with the piece I have just written!<br /><br />PeterPeter Fareynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6942147318185235475.post-89083103891799652022011-11-12T10:19:01.325-05:002011-11-12T10:19:01.325-05:00A Dead Man in Deptford [Paperback]
Anthony Burges...A Dead Man in Deptford [Paperback] <br />Anthony Burgess. Anyone ever read this novel? <br /><br />Burgess recreates the world of Elizabethan England--from the court and its intrigue to the theater and its genius--in this life of Christopher Marlowe, murdered in suspicious circumstances in a tavern brawl in Deptford. "A daring romp through history, theology, sex, language, and espionage."--Kirkus ReviewsSettembrinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00854544409784504550noreply@blogger.com